YoYo: You’re on your own
Opinions abound! Hear Nino speak to how “people share so much, we’re just not willing to admit it…” and how realizing common ground could be a human unifier
Are we missing something? Fast forward to learn about the exponential function, how it relates to our sick care system, and what’s possibly happening behind the blinding curtains of Covid-19 media
Funny looking sculptures
We live on a finite planet. Slide here to listen to how Nino’s view on learning to live with less shaped the life he built for himself and how it’s helped him in present times
Ant Blair 0:00
Nino. I saw an article on LinkedIn accidentally, where a guy wrote an article that was I want to say benign. The title was clickbait that I’ve been thinking about since sometime last week. The title I can’t remember verbatim, but it was along the lines of do you choose money over lives?
Nino Cocchiarella 0:33
Ant Blair 0:34
yeah, that’s a thing right now Nino where it’s looking as if people are choosing economic continuance.
Nino Cocchiarella 0:47
Well, you heard all the shit a couple weeks ago about all the politicians saying, just sacrifice granny for the cause, you know? Now the irony is if it’s the working stiff, it’s the guy that’s delivering the groceries or the girl that’s doing the shopping for you. Or, you know the guy at the pizzeria that has to, you know, work in horrible conditions and then zip around and and confront people those, you know, the working man. They’re the ones that are going to be dropping like flies, right? You know, the wealthy powerful people have already got their stash supplies and they’re going to basically stay in quarantine until probably winter, if not beyond but
Ant Blair 1:31
Nino Cocchiarella 1:33
it is. It’s the guys that Amazon the Amazon warehouse. It’s the it’s the UPS drivers, the lady that brings the mail who lives right down the road. You know, it’s like I worry about her.
Ant Blair 1:42
Yep. Yep. Yep. I didn’t think about it that way. You know, but you’re absolutely right. Why wouldn’t the money people be in favor of making more money and putting people at risk because they’re not? Yeah, they’re stocked up. Yeah, they don’t have nothing to worry about.
Nino Cocchiarella 2:02
And then there’s all the disbelievers who just think it’s a Chinese hoax or it’s not that big a deal. It’s only the flu and blah, blah. And while we can argue the fact that, yes, the percentage of people that get it is low, and yes, the percentage of people that will actually pass away from it is low. When you expand that out to the population of the country or the world, we’re talking about hundreds of thousands of people. And not only is that just fucking ridiculous that we’re just saying, okay, so we’ll lose a quarter million people, citizens human beings.
Ant Blair 2:40
Nino Cocchiarella 2:40
We’re basically saying that’s okay.
Ant Blair 2:44
Nino Cocchiarella 2:45
That economic prosperity and continuation of the capitalist system is the only thing that matters.
Ant Blair 2:53
The only thing that matters NIno, here’s where I get caught up and not to say that I don’t that I disagree with that. I’m not saying that. My struggle is the people that I know who, where are they going to get their next paycheck from, you know, 18, the 18 over 18 million people who are unemployed right now in the service industry in these other places. I’m thinking man, on the one hand, they’re not making any money. So they’re dying a slow death. Zero. they’re, they’re dying a slow death.
Nino Cocchiarella 3:38
Well, I know that these are the people that are working that service sector job, the $10 an hour jobs out there. Those people don’t have savings.
Ant Blair 3:47
No, who does?!
Nino Cocchiarella 3:48
their cast offs of society that you know, they’re disposable disposable workers, and, you know, they’re not going to make it so I don’t know if you’ve read through some of the different responses different Different countries are doing. But like Australia, pretty much boom, two grand a month, every 2000 Australian dollars. I don’t know what that means in US dollars, it’s probably 2500 or so. That’s like not that I watched the exchange markets. I don’t, but like 20 $500 a month for everybody. Boom, there you go. All the European countries are doing like some of the year like Francis like up to 70 $500 a month.
Ant Blair 4:24
Are you kidding me? I didn’t know that.
Nino Cocchiarella 4:26
Of course, the cost of living in some of these European countries is astronomical. That aside, they’re just saying, okay, for now, we’re gonna throw our money at the citizens, even if we’re borrowing it for the next 20 generations because the citizens are what’s important. In this country. We’re throwing trillions at the rich and we’re giving 1200 dollars to each person one time that’s supposed to last 10 weeks. 120 bucks a week. Can you live on 120 bucks a week.
Ant Blair 4:57
Oh, especially if you’re already in the hole. Yeah, yeah, especially if you already in the hole.
Nino Cocchiarella 5:04
So and so many of you but somebody the financial Institute’s in this country, what they’re doing is they’re taking that 1200 dollars, it’s coming in, and they’re going well, you got late fees, you’ve got this payment that’s overdue. You got boop gone. So there’s a percentage of citizens that are getting that 1200 dollar check that poof, gone.
Ant Blair 5:22
Gone, gone and whatever’s left. If you’re already in the hole, you’re basically just giving it to the bill collector and if you don’t choose to give it to the bill collector and you and you spend it on food.
Nino Cocchiarella 5:36
Ant Blair 5:37
Well, beer is food.
Nino Cocchiarella 5:39
It is. Wine is fruit.
Ant Blair 5:41
There you go! That’s food too. I tell you, who do you pay with this 1200 dollar stimulus check that you’re getting? Do you pay the bill collector or do you get more provisions and then hope the bill collector doesn’t come and repo your stuff or whatever happens in that way. I will say, it’s interesting to know how many companies, they have some sort of support program for people, but they’re not advertising it. I called everybody who I send a bill to. And I said, What are you doing to support your customers, your clients, whatever in the midst of all of this? And they say, Oh, well, we have some programs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, that’s shit’s not on your website. I didn’t get an email about it. I didn’t get a you send me frickin 500 junk mail, frickin envelopes. But you don’t send me any information on how you’re going to help me get through this time. Man, it’s just ate up all the way around Nino. Its ate up.
Nino Cocchiarella 6:51
It is it is showing the underbelly of the beast. It really is. And and it’s, you know, it shows how poorly capitalism And son’t get me wrong, I profess that I’m a democratic socialist. You know, ie Bernie Sanders. I’m not against capitalism if it’s regulated, but we don’t have regulations. But in a capitalist system, everything is everything is designed for profit, profit, profit, profit, profit, profit. That’s it. And if you don’t, like, say, okay, there could be a pandemic, let’s stock up on these things. The capitalist system says, No, no, we’re not stocking on mass. We don’t need to have you know, 5000 extra masks and storage because that’s just a waste of money. We need that money for shareholders.
Ant Blair 7:35
Right And oh, by the way, if we need them, we’ll just get them for China. Oh, but wait a minute. China is where it originated from and we can’t get anything from China now. Shit.
Nino Cocchiarella 7:47
And then we’re just insulting China constantly. Like we’re saying, Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Hey, can we have those masks? Yeah right.
Ant Blair 7:54
Really? Nino? Oh my gosh, man. Did you notice how did you Notice how old Trump was. Yeah, you know, I have the power to jumpstart the economy if I want to if I say the economy goes, it’s gonna go. But then all of a sudden it turns into where well just let the governor’s decide that.
Nino Cocchiarella 8:17
Yes, states rights, no states rights, state rights, no states rights. Yeah. It’s like, come on. I have no love for Donald Trump. But I guarantee you if Hillary Clinton was in there, it would be just as disastrous
Ant Blair 8:29
just as disastrous to tack on to that point. When he backed off. Did you notice that is the time where all the protesters came out? So basically, he was like, yo, go, go, go, go go. Then he backtracked and right after that folks start driving to the capitol and protesting and and throwing lawsuits out of Governor’s and things like that. In my mind, I’m looking at that sequence of events and saying, you know, Trump was here, then he backed up. But then all of this people came out because here in Lansing, they were saying that majority of the people who came out during that, during that protest at the capitol, the majority of those folks were Trump supporters. Trump’s supporters did his dirty work for him to keep him clean, in my opinion. And I said, how about that man?
Nino Cocchiarella 9:35
Do you recall history? Do you recall what the brown shirts were?
Ant Blair 9:40
No, I don’t please, please tell me. Educate me.
Nino Cocchiarella 9:44
when Hitler was starting his fervor before he was elected? Or was it after he was elected? I don’t remember that. I’m not a historian. But I know enough that basically, the people that were in love with everything Hitler was saying were considered they call them the brown shirts because they were running around doing the dirty work. They were beating up the people that were against him. They were killing the people that were against him. They were doing all that dirty work. But then once Hitler came into power, he kind of pushed him aside. Which would be a lesson for these for these truckers that are thinking that, you know, their leader in chief is going to, you know, take him under their wing under his wing, it’s for Trump. It’s all about Trump. You know, I mean, any most any politicians, it’s all about themselves in power. So it’s just a shame that we have to live under this, you know, in this in this situation, it’s like, couldn’t have picked the worst possible set of scenarios.
Ant Blair 10:43
Let me ask you this, though Nino, you’ve said with the brown shirts, thank you for that education. I had no clue about that. Do you think it’s different now, as opposed to with the brown shirts to where the people who are doing Trump’s dirty work, are they getting enough economic benefit or keep my guns and my home benefit? Whatever the benefit is? Do you think that they’re getting enough benefit from Trump? The brown shirts, put him up… Hitler gets there. Hitler says, fuck y’all, thank you for your support, to whereas there’s enough things going on over here under Trump for the people who support Trump to where they feel as if they’re getting a fair, they’re getting a fair deal. They’re getting a fair shake. So it’s not necessarily like the brown shirts, where he’s saying, fuck you, so to speak. He’s doing enough to keep those folks engaged in thinking that they’re prospering or benefiting under him.
Nino Cocchiarella 11:54
I have no idea why people who follow him with such fervor, why they do what they do it just it blows my mind. I mean, I was a big supporter of Bernie Sanders, but Bernie Sanders, but Bernie Sanders was a flawed man. He had a politician wise there were things. Yeah, that I didn’t like about him. I think there’s a person he was a straight up solid person. But was he the perfect candidate in my opinion? No, but he was the closest I’ve seen in a long time. I’m the guy that voted for, you know, Dr. Jill Stein, Ralph Nader. Ralph Nader. How far back do you want to go?
Ant Blair 12:30
Ralph Nader? Are you kidding me right now? Wow, that’s a blast from the past.
Nino Cocchiarella 12:37
He’s still active
Ant Blair 12:38
He is. Wow. What I appreciate you saying in the beginning that even though things are quote unquote, opening up, that you’re not going to change your way of doing things. I’ve heard other people say the same thing. They say that Doesn’t matter whether or not the governor, the mayor, the President, whoever opens up, whatever, whenever I’m not going to open myself up until I believe that it’s safe to go out. I say that to say this. One of the conversations that I had earlier today was someone who is the sales director at a brewery. And she was talking and we said, well, I told her, I said, Well, looks like we’re going to get on the other side of this about the first of May, mid May the end of May at the very latest. She’s saying, Yeah, we’re trying to figure out what that looks like. How do we how do we space out our seating so that their social distancing practices still in place? What she said after that? struck me I never thought about it until she said it. Who’s gonna want to come out Even if things are open back up?
Nino Cocchiarella 14:08
all the people who believe it’s a hoax, you know all the people who think they’re immune to people who you know, I don’t know of all the people that are at the protests, you know, so there will be other people that come out there will be young, you know, college age kids that think they’re immune to everything you know. You know, people like like myself will probably get out to a certain degree but I will be very cautious. You know, I don’t want to get it I feel pretty confident that I’m a you know, healthy person and if I got it wouldn’t wouldn’t be the end of me but right. I ain’t taking no chances.
Ant Blair 14:48
If you don’t have to. That’s right. If you don’t have to take chances, why would you take chances?
Nino Cocchiarella 14:52
And there are also reports that you know, once you’ve had it that there are people that are presenting diminished lung capacity, even after they’re better
Ant Blair 15:01
is that right? Yeah. Oh, I haven’t caught that news yet. To be honest, I’ve been trying to get myself out of the news cycle because it’s at the end of the day is the same thing. And it’s all clickbait in gloom and doom, and scare you to death and all of that stuff. I pay attention to the numbers and I don’t want to pay attention to the news anymore. To get the numbers. That’s a pretty quick read.
Nino Cocchiarella 15:31
Yeah, yeah, you can get the numbers pretty quick. I one of the things so I went to art school. And one of the things in art school is you have it’s called critique. You’ve done advertising I’m sure you’ve been around the critique world and you know you every day you critique you know, and and what you do is you learn how to take it, I guess and process it. and
Ant Blair 16:01
use it to better yourself.
Unknown Speaker 16:03
Right. So here’s here’s an interesting scenario. I don’t know if you can hear the truck out there, but
Ant Blair 16:07
Nino Cocchiarella 16:08
um, this guy, Steve, he’s a trumper. He’s a conservative. He’s a rush limbaugh. But we’re friends.How is that?
Ant Blair 16:20
How’s is that?
Nino Cocchiarella 16:21
That’s because people share so much. We’re just not willing to admit it. I like a rural life. I live in the country. I have large gardens. I am a big advocate of taking care of yourself. You know, you’re the yo yo right. You’re on your own. And I’ve always been that way. And you know, I have 7.38 kilowatt solar system. I have batteries in the basement. I have gardens. I have orchard I have chickens. I take care of I take care of my own world and yes, I am a Democrat. Like socialists by name, but I am also effectively someone who has a lot in common with this guy out here because he lives in the country, he has a big garden, he wants to take care of himself and not be dependent on anybody else. There’s a lot of common ground and people are just not catching on, we’re just we’re just all like this, you know, and we got to get over that, you know, we really got to get over that. So you have think of this, everybody says, right and left, right, I don’t see it as right and left, I see it as a circle, right. And, and you can, you can, you can meet at the top or you can meet at the bottom, you know,
Ant Blair 17:41
on the sides or wherever in the circle.
Nino Cocchiarella 17:43
Well, seriously, if you look at the fact that I’m on on the left, you’re going to have some hardcore people and they’re going to you know, the people that burn down chicken factories because they don’t like the way they treat the chickens. Then on the right you go to the to the extreme rather, you’re going to see people that marched around with with, you know, ak 50 sevens around the courthouse. And then you also have at the top of the circle, you have people that kind of are kind of get it, and they’re kind of civil. And they’re like, yeah, we’re in this together. We don’t, you know, we can disagree, or we can agree to disagree. But the reality is we have to work together. We have to work together. Because that .1% up there, that’s running the show. Those people they’re pitting us against each other. And as long as long as long as we’re fighting with each other, over abortion, or whatever it is, and don’t get me wrong, there are there are things that are important to be considered. They’re happy, because it’s just, you know, we’re doing we’re fighting here, we’re fighting here and they’re just Taking, taking everything out of the mint right? The robbin’ us blind.
Ant Blair 19:05
Yep. I will say no, I agree with that line of thinking. Just because we happen to at least throw one conspiracy theory into the conversation.
Nino Cocchiarella 19:21
I don’t I don’t know. I don’t listen. I don’t believe in conspiracy theory I believe in conspiracy fact.
Ant Blair 19:26
Ah, say word. I wonder Nino. It’s interesting to be back in my home state. And listen to home state thinking, thinking that I’ve been used to nothing really surprised me that comes out of people’s mouth here as opposed to other places. It’s familiar right? Being here getting back into that lane and listening to folks who are Michiganders and pretty independent you know we hey we we like our fishing we like our hunting we like our woods. We like our guns. We like our weed. We like our we we like what Michigan folks like. And this guy who’s in the neighborhood He’s like, Yeah, man, I’m bout ready to kick that damn governor in the ass. He’s going on and on. He’s one of those people who if he had the time to go to Lansing and protest, you would have been one of those cats. He says, I want to know what’s really going on. This has to be a big distraction. So he goes into the, you know, the flu and H1N1 and this and that the statistics about that I haven’t taken the time to look it hasn’t been that important to me to fact check right? However I’ve heard this maybe three or four times that other things kill more people and all of that beeswax. Why is this getting so much media play? Why is this such a big deal? What’s really going on? What is the distraction? And I know that’s how governments get down I know that’s how you know powerful people and money people. I mean, we’re talking like Bilderberg type money Rockefeller type money, those type not Oprah and Bill Gates money talking about that job money.
Nino Cocchiarella 21:39
Ant Blair 21:40
Old money. Old money. That’s the way those motherfuckers get down. So I can’t help but at least wonder, Is there something else going on? And I’m thinking probably so. Is there something else going on that Taking all of our attention away from whatever that other thing that’s going on. There is nothing in my newsfeed in my news feeds other than Coronavirus, this Coronavirus that how to how to survive stay at home, home At home workouts. How to go to the grocery store without getting cooties. You know all this shit, man. I mean, that’s all. That’s all this in my news feed man. That’s it. So I’m wondering what else is going on?
Nino Cocchiarella 22:32
A lot. Exactly, you know? Well, let’s see to back up. Why is it? Why is it a big deal? This virus is a big deal because our capitalist hospital system and to be fair, even the socialist democratic socialist countries in Europe are having trouble. We’re not equipped to handle the number of capital This healthcare system or sick care system is often called, is designed to make money at the lowest margins. We don’t we don’t stockpile mass, we don’t do this. We don’t we’re not thinking ahead. We’re just
Ant Blair 23:13
Just in time, just in time.
Nino Cocchiarella 23:14
Just in time just in time. So when we when when that system is overloaded, then yet it collapses and crashes. I think I mentioned this to you while back, you know, after 911 everyone was talking about the firefighters and the police officers and what heroes they were and they weren’t. They absolutely couldn’t work. But those heroes got forgotten as soon as the tragedy was off the newsfeed and they’re, they’re dying of cancer and that they’re being dropped from insurance and all that shit. You’ll see the same thing with the medical people. Watch it in a couple of years. Be cast aside. You know what, so that’s why that’s why it’s a big deal. What else is going on? Well,
Ant Blair 24:00
Just to clarify Nino, you’re saying it’s a big deal because our sick care system is an equipped or prepared to handle such an influx of sick people.
Nino Cocchiarella 24:15
Yeah, the numbers, there’s just numbers, right? Just, you know,
Ant Blair 24:19
Nino Cocchiarella 24:21
Professor Albert Bartlett, who’s passed away now, you can look him up on YouTube. He says the biggest problem with most people in modern society is their inability to understand the exponential function. And
Ant Blair 24:37
What does that mean
Nino Cocchiarella 24:38
the exponential function meaning there, you know, people that don’t read are illiterate, people that don’t get math or innumerate. They don’t get. So the exponential function is it’s the doubling 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, et cetera. You know, I can tell you the story if you want to take the time. How that all came about, you know what the whole point of it is. But exponential means it doesn’t just go up like this.
Ant Blair 25:07
It’s a hockey stick.
Nino Cocchiarella 25:08
It goes shoot like that. And you know, it’s like, it’s slow at first, but then all of a sudden. So when you have the numbers of people on this planet that we do seven and a half billion people, that exponential hockey stick, okay? Yes, it may only be 2% of the population that really gets sick. It may only be 5% of those people that actually die. Oh, that’s not that big a number. No, it is that big number.
Ant Blair 25:37
Because the numbers big to begin with,
Nino Cocchiarella 25:39
because the numbers are big to begin with. Right. And our sick care system is just not designed to handle that. It just is. So that’s why it is a big deal. And I don’t care what they say it is a big deal. What else is going on? Of course, the continued robbing of America by corporate powers and rich people is always in place. Disaster capitalism, right. It’s all about
Ant Blair 26:00
Disaster capitalism is a thing. Its a thing!
Nino Cocchiarella 26:03
if you think it’s a disaster quick, how can we monopolize this and make money? Yeah. Yeah. So and the climate continues to collapse. We, you know, the the Trump administration has been one of the one of the, one of the biggest fears I had about a Trump presidency and I’ll say, Okay, I’ll say here first for public record. I did vote for Hillary Clinton The first time I voted for a non third party candidate in a long time because I really knew that Trump was gonna fuck things up. He’s doing what he said he’s like, the EPA is dead. He’s basically telling corporations pollute all you want. I don’t give a shit. I mean, what the fuck, man, I mean, at least a democrat will try to present the appearance of looking like they gave a shit when they really wouldn’t He’s just outright saying, pollute, I don’t care.
Ant Blair 27:06
And you want to know some Nino, forgive me for cutting you off. It’s real quick. That’s the one thing that I can say about Trump that motherfucker. It’s like, did you expect anything different? You know, this, this cat, this cat came in and I said to myself, I know what he’s like before. I know he’s not going to be any different now. And he has been consistent, not necessarily with what he says and his backtracks and, you know, false information and all that. But he was doing that before he was president. That’s what I’m saying. So he’s been consistently true to himself, the whole way through the whole way through so I can give a cat credit for, you doing you and you don’t give a fuck? I guess I could give somebody credit for that. Do I agree with the shit that they do? No, but I can definitely appreciate the fact that they’re staying true to who they are. Whether whoever likes it or not. And that’s fucking crazy.
Nino Cocchiarella 28:20
Yeah, oh yeah, he is a absolute character. But consider the fact that he when he was running, he ran as a populist.
Ant Blair 28:31
I missed that.
Nino Cocchiarella 28:32
Oh, yeah. Oh, no, the war in Iraq, bad. We should have never gone.
Ant Blair 28:36
He did say that
Nino Cocchiarella 28:37
Healthcare, I’m going to give health care to everybody. He ran as a Bernie Sanders populace type of person speaking to the regular joe and then he gets an office and just like Obama did. Let’s see what Wall Street bankers Can I put in charge of shit?
Ant Blair 28:54
Nino Cocchiarella 28:56
Don’t get me wrong. I would rather have Barack Obama back in the White House, lickety split over anybody right now that’s been president
Ant Blair 29:03
In recent times, yeah.
Nino Cocchiarella 29:05
At least the man was intelligent. He may have been bought out, but at least he was intelligent. He can put a whole sentence together,
Ant Blair 29:18
Facts, very eloquent. We were talking about what’s really going on and so we were talking about the sick care. And then it went to so what’s, what is going on is,
Nino Cocchiarella 29:29
well, you know, the the continuing fleecing of the citizens I mean, correct. This get as much as we can. I mean, I don’t, you know, here’s the thing. I say I believe in conspiracy facts, not theory. I’m, I often say I’m not a Democrat or Republican. I’m not a conservative or a liberal. I’m a realist. I rspond to real information
Ant Blair 29:57
But what’s real and what’s not real nowadays, who Who can even tell the difference?
Unknown Speaker 30:02
If i think i think i can tell pretty well, no, I don’t mean to stand on a high horse and say I know all and am all and be all and fart all or whatever. But it is, again, part of that critical thinking that you learn in art school, I’ve learned how to filter very well. And I never profess that I’m right. I just profess These are my beliefs. And I’ll explain why. If you want to hear it, if you don’t, that’s fine. And that’s why, you know, I see the guy that just dropped off those logs he’ll come in and, you know, it’s kind of good that we were having this conversation. I just had to say, you know, sorry, I’m in the middle of something because literally we could talk for stand out in the yard and talk for hours. You know, he’ll listen as opposed to a lot of people on the right. But what’s, what I feel is going on is capitalist Islam has run its course the planet is on the edge of collapse. I, I don’t see a group of rich people sitting around a fire smoking cigars and drinking bourbon, planning how to screw us. But what I see is a bunch of rich fuckers out there trying to get as much as they can before it all goes south individually or in small groups perhaps. But it’s all about the rich and powerful becoming as rich and powerful as they can before the shit hits the fan. Again, it’s not a conspiracy of a bunch of rich white fuckers sitting around by fire drinking brandy from their brandy snifters and smoking their big fat stogies. It’s a bunch of individual rich and powerful people trying to get as much as they can. Because money does something to people I’ve noticed. I’m sure you’ve seen this. One of the people I like
Ant Blair 31:58
once or twice
Nino Cocchiarella 31:59
yeah once so One of the people I like to follow is is Nate Hagen’s. And he used to work on Wall Street. He used to manage money for billionaires. And he said, These people would come in and say, here’s my $3 billion. When you make it $6 billion, I’m out. Year later, two years later, it’s $6 billion. They’re like, no, let’s go for 12. And he’s like, he’s talking about these people, like they’re calling from the hospital and their wife is in labor. What’s IBM doing? Are they are they up or down? Serious? And he said, fuck it, and he left. You know, money has has this corrupting power. And I think all those people that have that are in this stratospheric range of money that we can’t even imagine. They just want it all. They don’t even they don’t even know they want it all. They just want it all. And so all of those rich fuckers, all those .001% that the 30 people, whatever it is, that own everything they’re literally just trying to get everything because I think that the majority of them do understand that systemic collapse is coming. Now systemic collapse can come in a lot of different ways. And I’m not here to say I know how it’s going to come because this Coronavirus threw me for a loop.
Ant Blair 33:17
A lot of people it threw for a loop
Nino Cocchiarella 33:19
Oh, yeah, I am a disciple in the church of limits to growth.
Ant Blair 33:25
You mentioned that before.
Nino Cocchiarella 33:27
Yeah. And you know, this is a finite planet. We don’t have another planet out there to go get shit from and you capitalism, which is a Ponzi scheme, is based on growth, you have to have growth, but you can’t have growth on a finite planet.
Ant Blair 33:49
Nino Cocchiarella 33:49
Now, I’m sure there’ll be plenty of people that say, well, you can have, you know, intellectual property growth and then all this high tech and you know, and I and I’ll argue back. That’s Yes, that’s true. You don’t you don’t need a lot of natural inputs to develop the next web app. But what you need
Ant Blair 34:09
Nino Cocchiarella 34:10
A shitload of electricity to run servers all over the world! There’s another great quote I like is technology without energy is funny looking sculptures. Yeah, energy is the key to everything. And so I’ve, I’ve been for decades what is commonly referred to as a peak oiler, or most people mean in other words, the oil which is the primary resource of the world, the number one most important research resource of the entire modern society oil is has peaked, we have we the world has reached a peak of what can be extracted, we cannot extract any more without going to extraordinary measures
Ant Blair 34:56
So it’s not profitable anymore
Nino Cocchiarella 34:58
and well, so the The common rule is, well, we started fracking. Well see Peak Oil is dead. Well, fracking is a losing thing. And what’s happened to the fracking industry when the oil prices have gone down because the world has stopped, they’re dying, they’re dead. There wasn’t a fracking company out there making hardly any money at all. Most of them were losing money. But Wall Street was throwing money at him right and left, so they were staying alive. So I mean, I can go into detail ad nauseum about the oil industry, and I’m not going to it’s all wrapped into limits to growth, which means when the population of the planet gets to a certain point, there’s just too many people sucking on the tit. Right? And just can’t take it anymore. You know, you hear stories about the people in India and China want to join the modern society be like the people in the first world. Fuck we can’t do that. I don’t need to put them down. But the world can’t all live like Americans.
Ant Blair 35:58
You got that fuckin shit, right?
Nino Cocchiarella 35:59
We would need five or six more Earths. And we don’t have that. So the bottom line is what has to happen is those of us in the wealthy first world countries are going to have to start to learn to live with less.
Ant Blair 36:18
Good Good luck with that idea.
Nino Cocchiarella 36:20
Well, so and it’s not going to come, you know, you know, the politician is going to get up there and say, the way to save the planet to save ourselves is we all have to live with less we have to all move into smaller houses, we have to all start to grow our own food, whatever, you know, dystopian future that some people might say is that world. It’s gonna happen one way or another. Whether it comes voluntarily or it comes just by the fact that there’s no food in the grocery store because all of the delivery drivers now we’re dying of virus. So while I may have thought for decades, that what was going to take down industry Real society and capitalism was lack of energy inputs, or lack of lithium or lack of copper, whatever. It turns out that it was a virus. Yeah. Now, I’m not saying this is going to take us down. But this has taken us down a lot. And where do you go from there? I don’t know. No, I sure what things to go back to the way they were. I like the way things were, I don’t want to live in a cave. I liked going and having a beer with you in town. You know, that was that was good times. I don’t want to lose that.
Ant Blair 37:32
Nino Cocchiarella 37:33
But the reality is until this goes away, I think people that make lifestyle choices like me, and again, I’m not trying to toot my own horn or say, I have all the answers. I do not. But I’ve chosen to live a simple life, you know, live simply so that others may simply live Gandhi. I don’t participate in a consumer economy. I mean, you Sure I have to buy shit from time to time. I grow a lot of my own food, I produce almost all of my own power. I heat with wood, which is abundant in the woods. I live in the state forest. Right? I try to live with as little external inputs as possible. And I try to live a very simple life just simply by wearing the same old clothes that I’ve been wearing. I don’t need to go out and buy the newest thing or the newest data or get my nails done or, you know, it’s like, people what is important. This virus has shown us what’s important. What’s important, is a food supply and a housing supply. That’s right. And beyond that, who gives a shit?
Ant Blair 38:44
Right? That’s right. That’s right. No, man, you are preaching today boy. It takes a while to kick in.
Nino Cocchiarella 38:53
You remember just let me preface you asked me to do this.
Ant Blair 38:57
I did. I did. And I’m so happy that I did. I want to move into that idea that you just touched upon this idea of not being dependent on so many external inputs as you called it. It’s funny that you use computer language for that. Well, I guess it could be other language too but equate
Nino Cocchiarella 39:22
Ant Blair 39:23
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Manufacturing absolutely. Yeah. What was the genesis? What caused you to think? I want to produce my own energy. I want to produce my own heat, my own electricity. I want to have a yard full of chickens running around. I want to do woodworking. What pulled you away because you were in the mix. You were as about as capitalistic as the rest of these cats were you had your own. You had your own design firm. You were making good money. You’ve had a taste of that life what caused you to make the shift?
Nino Cocchiarella 40:08
Oh okay. Well I think it started when I was younger but to be fair while I was in the capitalist have my own business had employees was well respected etc etc won awards yada yada even then I had and as a matter of fact, its still on my website if you want to route around for it a quote from
Ant Blair 40:30
what’s your website address and you know for those who are listening
Nino Cocchiarella 40:33
Ant Blair 40:39
Nino Cocchiarella 40:40
Yeah, I’ve been trying to get Nino.com for years. But you know, that’s the story.
Ant Blair 40:44
So it was I can’t… Cheryl I’m not gonna get her name. It was from Communication Arts from like the 80s or 90s. It was just an article that basically said we need to be cautious. I’m gonna paraphrase We need to be cautious about the things we do for our clients. We being Creative Advertising marketing, which I wasn’t I worked for those people. I was a producer, I did art, you know, I did the creative side, I did the photography, the design, you know, editing, whatever. But what what we are creating for people? Is it really worth? I mean, is it worthwhile is what we create something that will be long lasting in the world, not just be the next plastic toy.
But when you say something that has value when you’re talking about housing and food has value. A design doesn’t mean shit in that world.
Nino Cocchiarella 41:43
Right. But what I always liked to do was to work for I did a lot of work for nonprofits. I did a lot of gratis work. Yeah, sure. I did. You know, some things that I’m not proud of. There’s a lot of stuff with a lot of stuff that’s on my website that I did over the years. That’s You know, the joke is, you know, prostitution is the oldest profession. What’s the second oldest profession? design photography advertising? Uh huh. Yes, yes. The client is always right. Yes, the client is always right. Um, and I just I always hated doing that shit. And I did it for years. Did I do some nice work? Yeah. Did I did did i do some crappy work for clients that were visually illiterate? Oh, God. Yes, did I. But to be fair to your other your early criticism. This is the argument back. Even when I was at the height of my capitalist fervor when I had employees and and high reputation, I was cautious about what I did. Not that I’m against gambling, but when the casino boat came to Evansville, we were in Evansville. I just said I’m not going to do work for the gambling industry. I just chose not to do work for the tobacco industry. I had Standards did it affect me? Yes.
Ant Blair 43:03
So you you had opportunities you had opportunities to cash out in those industries, your moral compass your ethos
Nino Cocchiarella 43:13
Ant Blair 43:14
Nino Cocchiarella 43:16
yeah but if you want to go and that’s why I’m not wealthy I’m wealthy I have a nice place to live that’s almost paid for will be paid for in a year and no other debt
Ant Blair 43:29
I’d say that’s wealthy in a more realistic sense
Nino Cocchiarella 43:33
It is in its piece of property that can support me in a lot of different ways.
Ant Blair 43:37
That’s right. That’s right.
Nino Cocchiarella 43:39
While I may not have money in the bank, I have actual physical things, but
Ant Blair 43:45
It’s gonna be people who have a shit ton of money in the bank and won’t be able to buy food.
Nino Cocchiarella 43:50
Yeah, what do ya what is the old saying, you know what, you can’t eat gold.
Ant Blair 43:54
Great. We call it cheese and we call it bread, but that cheese and bread can’t eat that shit.
Nino Cocchiarella 44:01
You know, you asked us the big the big question, how did this where did this seed get planted?
Ant Blair 44:06
Um, pun intended?
Nino Cocchiarella 44:09
Absolutely. I’m a germination man. I don’t know. I’ve always I was I was an odd child apparently. So I’ve been told when I was 13 I think I turned you on to this movie just last week, when I’m 13 years old, I go to see this movie called Soylent Green. Now, if if anybody is old enough to remember that movie and remember anything about it, and imagine themselves at 13 and the very impressionable age. Now, I’m not going to say that changed my life. But and there’s no need to go into the long dialogue about that movie. I would highly recommended. Yes, you know, by today’s standards, it’s a crappy movie. It really is. But it is it basically predicts what we’re in. And the funny thing is, if the movie was made, I think in the early 70s, the year the movie was the year that this movie was taking place was 2022.
Ant Blair 45:20
Nino Cocchiarella 45:22
And some of these science fiction writers, buddy, they have they’ve got some they’ve got some chops. They know how to extrapolate what’s going on and see what could possibly end up down the road. So
Ant Blair 45:35
So you watch this movie, and that put a seed in your head.
Nino Cocchiarella 45:40
Yeah, and it’s like, shortly after, I think I watched Silent Running and other classic of that era where Bruce stern group of astronauts are tending the last living things and giant space stations in orbit and the entire Earth is all concrete and 60 degrees, 70 degrees or whatever. You know, it’s like All of these movies that that came out all the science fiction’s that came out at that when I was an impressionable age really had it really had an affect on me, I think. And it’s it started me down a path to where basically when I was 16 years old, I dropped out of high school and ran away to the beginnings of a sustainable farm in Arkansas. Back in that way back in the back to the land days.
Ant Blair 46:25
No kidding and so you drop out of freakin high school. In you go to where’d you say you went to?
Nino Cocchiarella 46:34
It was near Eureka Springs, Arkansas. It was out in the boonies,
Ant Blair 46:39
Arkansas. There aint nothin but boonies in Arkansas
Nino Cocchiarella 46:42
Yes, this was on the Ozark Mountains. It was really beautiful. It was a group of people that were trying that they thought they were going to do this back to the land thing. The chemistry wasn’t right the time wasn’t right. I didn’t have any source of income or
Ant Blair 46:58
Unknown Speaker 47:00
They were kind of set and then I kind of became dependent. I’m just a kid, but I’m willing to work. And I wanted to do it. And I thought they wanted to do it too. And then it ended up being No, they just kind of wanted just to be high all the time.
Ant Blair 47:14
Yeah, some of those people are like that. I hear.
Nino Cocchiarella 47:17
Yeah. And while I have no problem being high all the time, well, I used to not much anymore because it’s illegal in Indiana,
Ant Blair 47:25
It is illegal in Indiana.
Nino Cocchiarella 47:27
And I don’t want to lose what I’ve worked so hard to gain.
Ant Blair 47:31
I heard that brother. I heard that brother. Come visit me in Michigan.
Nino Cocchiarella 47:36
Yeah, well, when interstate travel is open, I don’t know. We’ll see. No, I I used to smoke a lot of weed back in the day and I probably would if it was legal, but for the simple fact that it’s illegal.
Ant Blair 47:52
Nino Cocchiarella 47:53
And I’m a fucking Boy Scout. I don’t break the rules any more than I absolutely have to because I don’t have much I don’t have much. I don’t want to fucking lose it. I don’t want to be stupid and lose it. So my neighbor down the road, big pothead. He got busted for growing pot, right. There’s a lot of pot on this road. I could have it
Ant Blair 48:14
I’m sure. I’m sure
Nino Cocchiarella 48:16
A bunch of old hippies in the woods. I mean, that’s what’s out here. He got busted. Someone turned him in
Ant Blair 48:22
That’s a drag
Nino Cocchiarella 48:24
oh, no shit. He wasn’t growing for major production. He was
Ant Blair 48:28
Right his personal use
Nino Cocchiarella 48:30
And they sold a little bit here and there. He’s kind of a money guy. He wanted the money and he said he sold a few people but he wasn’t like a big production. And someone turned him in, he got busted. And basically, he spent two nights in jail and nearly $100,000 in fees and lawyer fees and penalties and fines. fundraiser buddy fundraiser, and if that happened to me, that’d be it. I mean, if I had to go out borrow $100,000 against this property or start all over. Fuck that.
Ant Blair 49:02
Nino Cocchiarella 49:03
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no is almost debt free and the power that gives you is immense. And that’s that’s my goal debt free. So yeah, I play it safe I play by the rules. Yeah.
Ant Blair 49:15
And you and you again, the seed was planted as a young person, this this idea of not being too far in the hole and being basically self sufficiency.
Nino Cocchiarella 49:30
Yeah. Not living beyond your means.
Ant Blair 49:32
Nino Cocchiarella 49:33
So to zip through the little bit more of a life story. So that didn’t work out in Arkansas came back. Grandma said, I’ll pay your way to art school. If you go back to school. North Carolina School of the Arts was a high school and a college, go to North Carolina School of the Arts. Get through high school with a specialization of visual arts. Meet the little woman get married. start a family and you know the You know that train, suddenly you wake up 25 years later? And you’re like, wow, but yeah, what’s the fuck out? Don’t get me wrong, great years, you know, I mean, I, you know, I could never, never conceive of not having those 25 years with with the kids but, you know at that point it’s like, okay, now it’s time to refocus on yourself. What was it that you were all about? Before you came a parent and had to take care of your kids or chose to take care of your kids? And I was like, I had a passion before and it didn’t work. Why did it not work? Didn’t work because I wasn’t around the right people. Hmm. So let me talk Let me start this again. Solo I mean, with what you know with the wife of 41 years by the way, you don’t hear that much anymore. Do you?
Ant Blair 50:50
Hell no. Congratulations.
Nino Cocchiarella 50:53
Always joked that I married her in kindergarten.
Ant Blair 50:55
Yeah, that’s what you always say. That’s great.
Nino Cocchiarella 50:59
I mean what can I say, but it did then then it was like, then it became a passion of mine again, I started really researching, again really digging into all this stuff. And then I, I was already politically aware. Obviously, I was voting for Ralph Nader, you know, I mean, I was already what it was the people today woke I was woke fucking in the 80s in the mid 80s. You know, I made that decision. We left Evansville 12 years ago. I mean, literally threw everything in a truck, drove up here bought this property and prayed that it would work out.
Ant Blair 51:33
Nino Cocchiarella 51:34
And it has, it has I mean, we’re not rich. We’ve gotten by we’ve paid down debt, you know, we’ve, we’ve survived. And, you know, it looks like Looks like I’ll be debt free in a year or so. And then it’s done. I don’t know. I don’t know what’s next. So
Ant Blair 51:52
I’ll tell you what, Nino. What you just said. I had a conversation with a friend of mine. Maybe Three or four weeks ago. He’s vice president of sales for big bud distributorship here in Columbus, Indiana.
Nino Cocchiarella 52:09
Oh, was that one? That was one of your podcasts?
Ant Blair 52:12
Yeah, it was. Yeah. Did you listen to Okay, yeah. Remember what he said at the end when I said, Do you have any final thoughts? What do you say? pay off your debt? The first thing he said he could have said anything, anything and he says, pay off your debt, pay off your debt, hold on to some cash and take care of your folks.
Nino Cocchiarella 52:34
Yeah, he was something else. He said. That was pretty good. I got out of that.
Ant Blair 52:37
He said a lot of good stuff.
Nino Cocchiarella 52:38
He did he did
Ant Blair 52:39
Yeah, he did. He really did. I wanted to say that to give us some support in this lifestyle that you’ve chosen to lead, because even people who have money at the very basic level, the ones who are quote, unquote, woke, they will even say, yeah, you know, There’s just some things that you need to be doing. Even if you have money. Don’t over leverage yourself, you know, and there’s just some common sense things that people can hold on to, and it’d be good information no matter what’s happening in the world. And here you are, in that same lane saying, Hey, I’m going to be debt free. I’m going to have property, I have my own energy, my own food supply. So if shit really, really, really was to go sideways, I’m probably going to be more alright than most people, and that was a lifestyle choice that you made, probably much to the chagrin or ridicule of other people who might be quote unquote, your peers.
Nino Cocchiarella 53:49
Oh, no, absolutely. When you choose a lifestyle like this, you do become your outside of the norm. you’re abby normal from Mel Brooks Young Frankenstein Abby. Abby somebody? Um, yeah, you’re outside the social norms and people kind of questioned it. But I do like to clarify and you know this but just for the sake of saying this, I’m not a prepper
Ant Blair 54:15
Nino Cocchiarella 54:16
I I prepare. Let’s see, what’s the the Benjamin Franklin said failing to prepare
Ant Blair 54:25
is preparing to fail.
Nino Cocchiarella 54:27
That’s it. Yes. Failure to bear to fail. Yeah. So I mean, it’s like, just think ahead. I mean, you don’t have to I mean, there are people that are I mean, I hear gunshots all around here and automatic fire people are just yahooin’ and, you know, I mean, okay, so if if Armageddon comes if zombie apocalypse comes, and people with machine guns come up here and want to take what I have, I mean, I’m not gonna fight them. They’re gonna win, you know, but simply prepare to live A simple self sustaining life I don’t think is a horrible thing. I don’t think it’s so far out of the mainstream. And especially now, a friend of ours said to Linda texting back and forth a couple weeks ago. Oh, it looks like Nina has been practicing this for decades. And and it’s true because when you choose this lifestyle, it’s a lot of fucking work. Yeah, the person I don’t know the exact percentage, I’d have to look it up. But I know the vast majority of people who let’s go homestead we’re going to go buy a piece of property. We’re going to grow our own food. We’re gonna do this we’re gonna do that. The majority fail in three to five years. And go like a business. Yeah, and go back to whatever it is they were doing.
Ant Blair 55:45
No kidding. Why do you think that is?
Nino Cocchiarella 55:47
It’s hard fucking work.
Ant Blair 55:49
Motherfuckers don’t want to work hard. No more. Hardly.
Nino Cocchiarella 55:52
Yeah, most people aren’t willing to work hard. It is physically hard work. But you know what, when my head hits That pillow. I’m asleep. That is not that I don’t wake up occasionally and have some level of thinking about all the shit going on. But I sleep well because I’m, it’s like working out you like to work out and I was a marathoner for years. And when you are able to get that much endorphin fix and that much body physical activity, you sleep good, you know?
Ant Blair 56:25
Yes sir. Yes sir. Man, it’ll be interesting to see how many people after this might change their thinking in that way. There’s so many benefits that you’ve touched on, probably even more that you haven’t touched on for choosing that kind of lifestyle, to choose to be self sufficient to choose to be not so dependent on a fragile just in time, made to profit the most type of system
Nino Cocchiarella 57:00
Yeah, no, I yeah, I’m there. And but I have to say to that I, I think we talked about this before I have a bit of guilt and you’ve questioned me on that. I know.
Ant Blair 57:12
Yeah. I have.
Nino Cocchiarella 57:13
And and rightfully so I get it. I’m part of it is Yes, I know. I’m a white man in America. And I was born to an academic family that had the means to bla bla bla bla bla, I wasn’t born in Flint, right? I wasn’t raised in a household with polluted water. I’m lucky, I get that. I, what I’ve built and established here is not just my hard work, there’s luck in there too is where I was the family I was born into the time I was born into etc, etc. So I can acknowledge that I can, and I do have immense sympathy for all of the people that are really suffering in this in this shadow
Ant Blair 57:58
Nino Cocchiarella 58:00
And it just kills me. It’s like, what can I do?
Ant Blair 58:03
I mean, you can do you can talk to me. And hopefully other people will hear what you have to say. And maybe that’s the seed that they need to make a lifestyle change to better themselves. In whatever case that may be.
Nino Cocchiarella 58:21
That’s That’s true. That truth as you say. I’m all about it, right? But only people of means can make that jump. Only people that can afford to sell the home they’re in or leave the apartment they’re in. It takes not just a leap of faith and a choice. That’s the lifestyle What? It takes money, it takes logistics, and a poor family in Flint. How the fuck are they ever going to get out of Flint, get a piece of land and start to do this, um, you know, and that’s the guilt I have. It’s like my circumstances led me to make Well, I think we’re wise choices and end up here. But how are other people going to get here? Here being what I think is a is a lifestyle that can weather storms, not all storms, but a lot of storms.
Ant Blair 59:16
You’re doing not you’re not doing too bad right now weathering this storm.
Nino Cocchiarella 59:20
But yeah, my life literally the only thing I was just yakking when Steve was dropping off those logs was like, I’m fine. The only thing that’s changed for us we can’t see the grandkid or Linda’s mom. You know, she’s off for three weeks. She’s essential at the credit unit. So she’s got to go back in a couple weeks to another three weeks shift. I’m not sure how that’s gonna play out but she’s been home. This is the second week she’s been home and I haven’t washed dishes. I haven’t done laundry. It’s like man, it’s like like the 1960s again. I mean, it don’t get the better than this.
Ant Blair 59:58
That is fucking do fantastic and I know we’ll probably get some shade there oh no for that but that is fucking great.
Nino Cocchiarella 1:00:06
I don’t mean to be sexist because I I do my share I work from home right? I do usually do the laundry I do usually do the middle a good chunk of the dishes that she does most of the big cooking and the big baking and generate mostly of the dishes that need to be done but no right you know it’s a partnership they what’s that saying a relationship is not 5050 What is it? It’s 100 100 It takes two whole people to make a relationship work. My mommy told me that my southern belle mommy told me that
Ant Blair 1:00:39
I bet she did you know what? And that’s why you’ve been married for so long because you have that philosophy on relationships.
Nino Cocchiarella 1:00:47
Maybe. Maybe. Or I just got really fucking lucky.
Ant Blair 1:00:51
I imagine you probably had a little bit of both. Man Nino as much as I want to keep talking to you Is there anything that you any final thoughts? Anything? I mean, God, it’s so much in this conversation that’s so deep. Not a whole lot of people talking about you could say no have anything else to say. And I’d be like, Okay. If you do have a final thought parting shots or anything that you’d like to leave with folks during this time, what would it be?
Nino Cocchiarella 1:01:24
Ant Blair 1:01:25
Nino Cocchiarella 1:01:26
Yeah, I mean, it will pass in one way or another. Maybe it will be better. Maybe it won’t. But be a Boy Scout and be prepared
Ant Blair 1:01:37
Without being a prepper.
Nino Cocchiarella 1:01:38
Well, yeah, I mean, prepare to whatever degree you want. If If you want to buy MREs and AR15s and stock up on 1000 rounds of ammo. Well, I guess that’s one way of preparing but, you know, it’s not my choice.
Ant Blair 1:01:55
Sure. hang tough. I think that’s a good word. There’s a lot of people who need to hear that word. They’re not… man. Nino is people who are shell shocked, struggling, life turned upside down. Who would have thought? Who would have thought in January? Some people knew. But even in October, November,
Nino Cocchiarella 1:02:21
Ant Blair 1:02:22
Nino Cocchiarella 1:02:24
People I listen to we’re talking. We’re raising red flags in in January.
Ant Blair 1:02:29
Nino Cocchiarella 1:02:30
And you know, just to say in January, again, because of our simple lifestyle. We order with the things that we don’t grow oats wheat, we order in 50 pound bags, always. You know, we’ve done this for years. It’s cheaper to buy a 50 pound bag of rolled oats, which we have oatmeal for breakfast, right? You can’t fucking buy that shit anymore. It’s gone, but it’s gone. So my lifestyle is affected. Yes, because I can’t buy my 50 pound bag of rolled oats.
Ant Blair 1:02:58
Yeah, but you have a 50 pound bag. And it’s you and Linda.
Nino Cocchiarella 1:03:02
Yeah, well, no, we’re down to about 15 pounds but yeah.
Ant Blair 1:03:06
Oh god. That’ll that’ll last you to what? Like October?
Nino Cocchiarella 1:03:11
No, actually not you two of us eating it every day. You’d be surprised.
Ant Blair 1:03:15
Oh, fair enough. Fair enough.
Nino Cocchiarella 1:03:17
We probably go through a 50 pound bag of oats every seven, eight months, maybe nine months.
Ant Blair 1:03:24
Nino Cocchiarella 1:03:25
I’m ordered twice every… more than once a year.
Ant Blair 1:03:28
Okay. Okay, well Nino… I’m gonna hang tough. And you do the same my friend always good to see you. I’m to your earlier point. I miss having a beer face to face with you at our normal watering holes and whatnot. But it is what it is. We have to use zoom.
Nino Cocchiarella 1:03:51
Yeah, that’s how we’re seeing the grandkids. So
Ant Blair 1:03:54
yeah, I turned my mom and dad on to it. I tried to get them on Skype. That was a no go. And they were able to make it onto a zoom meeting and I keep zooming around mostly because that’s the way that I’m able to visually see them and it’s really more for my mom because it’s been a good thing. It’s been a good thing in that way. And I’ve had some virtual happy hours with folks on zoom. That’s been a good thing. And again, having the opportunity to not sit down next to you. Sit down with you
Nino Cocchiarella 1:04:34
sit down with you,
Ant Blair 1:04:36
Yeah and you know, have a beverage and catch up is a good thing. So much love to you, Nino and thanks for the time for real
Nino Cocchiarella 1:04:42
Ant Blair 1:04:43
Cheers, man. Take care. Tell Linda hello!
Nino Cocchiarella 1:04:45
Ant Blair 1:04:46
Alright. See ya Nino!